sharingan09 wrote:When this author says forget everything one day,
does he mean everything that we've learned through out our life times
embedded into our brains or even things that have been there for
thousands of years, like the instinct to look for food when you're
hungry or to protect yourself from danger?
But as
for the question I think there would be a lot of chaos at first because
our primal instincts would make us afraid of strangers, thus leading to
violence then war.. but I think in the end history would eventually
repeat itself.
First Paragraph - The Author is speaking on things learned over the years such as, how to drive a car, brush your teeth, work the oven, open a door. Your primal instincts will always be there regardless, the body is programmed in such a way that it will (or should) react to natural instincts whether you realize it or not, body says you're hungry what do you do? Go get food.
Second Paragraph - I agree, there would be a huge possibility of wide spread chaos, or maybe humanity being as dumb as a doorknob, maybe we'll get along for a short period of time
but yes history does have a way of repeating itself.
Kyouri wrote:Watari wrote:Again I would have to poise the question, if you can't operate it how are you going to use it?? In order to be able to use anything that would be in the kitchen one would have to know how it all works, so thus something in a can would be worthless until humans figured out how to take a rock and bash it against the can to open it up and get the prize in side (much like how primates would have figured out how to open up a coconut for the milk inside) **EDIT NOTE** I'm also well aware that even primates could figure out how to use a can opener given time but using utensils would become yet another necessity to learn, creating tools to help get/eat food.
First, you just argued against your own point of 'hunting'. If we have no knowledge whatsoever, how then are we going to even have the knowledge to hunt? Hunt with what? Hunt
for what?
Second, you are heading toward confirming my argument that 'we learn through experience'. Even if an experience is simply through sight... A coconut falls from a tree, lands on a hard substance, it breaks open, something tasty comes out. Later the primate decides to try to recreate that experience for themself.... hence... learning through experience... not simply being a hunter/gatherer by instinct when they have no idea, no knowledge of how to hunt. However, just like hunting... one learns through the desire to fill that empty stomach... surely one can also learn how to open a refrigerator and pull out something less difficult to open than a can.
First off I have no clue how I was arguing against my point of hunting, regardless humans would have the inevitable job of hunting down food, the food in the fridge isn't going to last forever. Human beings will have to learn how to create their own food eventually, that is a given that at some point they will have gather their own food, so learning to hunt would become a necessity there would be no way around it.
Second I never argued against the fact that humans learn from experience, in fact all animals learn from experience, you watch a cat try to jump up on a high ledge and miss, that cat might try once more but after realizing it can't be done he will move on or try to find another route. Humans do the same, babies learn from experience especially when trying to walk, they find out falling hurts and they try not to fall. I can and always will agree that humans learn from experience so I will never deny that as it is a fact.
Kyouri wrote:Watari wrote:typically if you revert back to total and utter ignorance then one would have to assume that the most basic of primal instincts would take over; procreation and surviving. In order to survive you have to be able to fight and to fight you need energy and for that energy you would need food, again I am assuming that this would take place because I'm going under the assumption that the most basic primal urges would kick in and I'm speaking from mostly a male perspective on the matter as I probably could consider the female side which would usually involve nurturing but all in all the basic primitive instincts would all remain the same.
Are we even sure that procreation is 'primal instinct'? Sure, animals have babies all the time, but if we wake up alone, because some would not wake up next to someone else, then what thought process would be primal in order for that ignorant person to want to go out, find a mate, and make babies? Again.. it would come from sight experience. You see two dogs, two birds (or more), etc... you wonder what it's all about, you find someone that resembles you, you try it out.
As for the gender roles... please... those did not exist until religion took hold of people's wanton desire to be controlled. Men are just as innately able to nurture as women (sea horse - birds), just as women are just as innately able to hunt as men (lions - birds).
All in all, I believe a person's first 'instinct' would be to explore their surroundings and themselves in order to figure out the first primal question... 'what'... and not a level of self-worth, for if one doesn't even understand what 'self' is, then how could there even be a possibility of one contemplating self-worth?
Self-worth = belief in self: confidence in personal value and worth as an individual person. ~Encarta
On this half I'll start from the top and work my way down, mating is a primal instinct, sure one would see what other animals are doing and probably want to do that him/herself but one cannot deny that our brains are built with the capacity to help along the mating process with hormones, so thus nature is lending her hand here in the mating process thus making it a primal urge. So all in all the mating process is a primal urge but also needs a hand from experience as the more one does said task the better they can get at mating. It can be one in the same
As for the gender roles, my apologies I did not mean for it to come off in that sense as I was referring to women being the child bearers, I know women can hunt and in many tribes in Africa the women do hunt while the men tend to the children. But when the child is an infant the mother has to take care of that child or have someone feel the child as men cannot produce breast milk, which if you're not in a 'civilized society' breast milk is all you can feed a child as you cannot just run to the store and buy formula.
As for the self-worth, I read what you wrote wrong and so that was my wrong doing, I do agree that upon waking up one would want to get a feel for their surroundings as that would be natural for animal to do.
Now here is what the Author has wrote in regards to this answer;
"Well, there's that business about growing food and building shelter that we would want to get reacquainted with. we would want to relearn how to use and repair many of our machines. Learning to understand spoken and written language would also be a top priority, given that these skills are necessary for acquiring most others. When in the process of reclaiming our humanity will it be important to know that Jesus was born of a Virgin? Or that he was resurrected? And how would we relearn these truths, if they are indeed truths."
So really the author never really answers the questions but instead gives further insight to the many answers that one would give, of course he could never name all of them as that would be a long list. But also remember his reason for asking the question in his book was because he's creating an argument against religion in modern society, I asked because I thought this would be a good thought provoking question to ask in general
So far I am liking the answers here as it's great to hear other insights, I honestly never thought of waking up and just getting acquainted with the area I woke up in as something to reclaim, but thinking about it more, if I woke up dumb as a doorknob, figuring out where I woke up would indeed be a task in itself.
I shall put up pretty much what the author was asking. Now what would you do if you woke up one day and knew absolutly nothing? You have forgotten everything that you have ever learned in this world, what should we reclaim first? While I would agree with you Ky that most people would want to acknowledge their existence at somepoint, but wouldn't there be more pressing matters to tend to at first? Like the ability to find/make shelter/food, communication, walking, reading. I mean at what point when we're trying to re-learn everything do we ponder spirituality and our own self-worth?
